Margaret and Helen — they always say it best.
From Helen:
Margaret, several people have asked me why I haven’t been writing. The truth is, honey, this isn’t funny anymore. Our President… scratch that… the moron currently occupying the White House just equated George Washington to Robert E. Lee. He can’t understand why a memorial to the symbolic founding father of our country is different than a memorial to a general in an army that fought a failed rebellion against our government.
Mr. President, with no respect intended, I implore you to please step down. You are not qualified for the position you now hold. Quite frankly, you are not qualified to be much more than a reality TV star, a position I hold in very low regard by the way.
There is a reason that in Germany you will find no statues of Hitler, no monuments to the Third Reich, and noChancellor of Germany suggesting there was blame…
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FiftyFourandAHalf 
Well it seems that you have some righteous folks commenting. I’ll just say that I fear what is to come and I don’t think Nazis, neo or otherwise, the KKK or white supremacists have a place in this nation. Freedom of speech and the right to bear arms and all that jazz- yea I know. People are to damn touchy when it comes to political correctness. We should be worried about things that matter and that threaten our country. I don’t know what to write without fear of being attacked by someone who thinks they know all the answers and act as if they were actually at the scene of a murder.
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Kingmidget does have a point, in that violence on our side should be condemned as well. I just don’t really see any evidence that there was much.
And nobody who marches with people carrying swastikas can be considered a “fine” person … The people who are standing up to those people, in my mind are.
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In your words and I couldn’t say it better.
“And nobody who marches with people carrying swastikas can be considered a “fine” person … The people who are standing up to those people, in my mind are.” Yes, indeed.
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I wonder who those two are?
Who’s the happiest man in America? Mike Pence. That’s who.
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Margaret and Helen rock, and the words ring out loud and strong, especially because they were around during WW2. They lived through a time when fascism reared its ugly head, and I can only imagine how heartbroken people of their generation are to see it making a return appearance.
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I’ll be honest, I only read the headline and read no further.
I’ll be honest, I’m tired of liberals unwilling to condemn the violence of leftist extremists.
The reality is that there were two groups who showed up in Charlottesville intent on violent action to achieve their aims. Well, actually, maybe that’s not the case. The Nazis would have marched and chanted their vile slogans and demonstrate their stupidity and that could have been it. But … there were a group of violent leftist extremists who showed up intent on ensuring that the event ended in violence.
Unless we, as members of the left, are willing to condemn the violence from our side, we simply cannot stand on any kind of moral ground and condemn the violence of the other side.
Nazism and white supremacy are horrible ideologies that need to be defeated. But there is a way to do this and the violent left is not doing it correctly.
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Yeah the leftist extremists that got in the way of the murderous car. How rude!
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You do realize that the violence began hours before the car, right? You do realize that there are numerous instances in the last year or two of leftist extremists using violence to shut down the First Amendment rights of those whose opinions they disagree with, right? You do realize that members of the extreme left showed up in Charlottesville with baseball bats and clubs, right? Does that sound to you like people planning on peacefully protesting? Is violence on the streets of this nation acceptable to you as long as it meets your objectives?
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The nazis showed up dressed as militia and carried automatic weapons.
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They claimed to have 200 guns, I have yet to see any image with any of them carrying weapons. The violent left showed up with masks, helmets and shields.
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There were lots of pictures. Beige militia gear and flacks jackets. Assault weapons. I am heading to bed but will see if I can find pictures tomorrow.
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Please do. I’d like to see them. But even if they showed up in “uniform” and with guns, does that excuse violent leftists who showed up with an intent to engage in violent counter demonstrations. Elyse, I hope you have seen enough of my comments to know that I am on your side on these types of issues. I abhor anything that is even close to Nazism or racism or hate. With every fiber of my being. But, there is a violent strain on the left as well. And, unless we on the left are willing to condemn them as well, we are no better than the hypocrites on the right.
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Here’s one article — sorry I am swamped and can’t find the others quickly. But I have read them.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/17/white-supremacists-militias-private-police-215498
But before you condemn Margaret and Helen, you really should read it 😉
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I was responding to the headline and what I have seen filling FB, social media, and news sites. Regarding the article — McAuliffe is quoted as saying that 80% of the people in the crowd had semi-automatic weapons. Bullshit. There may have been some militia members there but none of the pictures or videos I have seen shows them — including the Vice video that focused on the white supremacists.
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My husband was commenting the other day that that presence got very little coverage, so I think you’re right that they weren’t well covered. But these are the anti-government militia folks like the Bundy Boys who don’t believe the federal guvment controls them. And while they claimed to be there protecting the First Amendment, they have a very violent record. And there are lots of pictures, but none of them seem to be jpgs so I cannot attach. Google militia + Charlottesville and images. Lots to be had.
I do understand your point though. Something I read somewhere this morning analogized the AntiFA to the folks in PETA — and there is something to it.
But when all is said and done, the injured and the dead were on the side of the anti-protesters. And that says a whole lot.
Lastly, historians are pulling out the history of the “both sides do it” argument. It ain’t pretty. https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/8/17/1690536/-Trump-s-both-sides-defense-has-a-long-and-sordid-history-in-American-racism
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Trust me. I have believed for decades that right wing militias are the greatest internal threat we have. To be honest though, the civil unrest that seems to be the objective of the radical left is a very close second these days.
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Okay I read the Margaret and Helen piece. I’m not sure why you wanted me to. It shows they are clueless about the violent strain that runs through the extreme left. Do you believe it is right to use violence to shut down conservative speakers at college campuses? Do you believe it is right to use violence to protest at WTO meetings? Do you believe it is right to use violence to try to shut down speech protected by the First Amendment that you disagree with?
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No. Especially not the WTO — my husband worked there st the time and folks really don’t understand how important a role it plays in keeping the peace. Trade has been a reason for many wars.
But I agree with a lot of what you say. But another difference is that the Right is condoning their extremists now and pulling them into the main stream. We are not, and by ignoring them we marginalize that behavior. Or I hope we do.
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If the violent right must be condemned by Trump and Republicans than we must also call out and condemn the violent extremists on our side. Simply ignoring them is insufficient if we demand more from the other side. This is what has bothered me ever since Saturday — the relentless hammering on Trump by talking heads, bloggers, friends on FB, and pretty much everybody else and a willful refusal to acknowledge and condemn leftist violence and intolerance. We all look like a bunch of head in the sand hypocrites.
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Very informative link, Elyse. I also followed an embedded link explaining the antifa movement. I recommend it – it is new to me. The ramifications are alarming to say the least. Militias are a powder keg and Trump is playing with matches.
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I’ll have to read that. I do understand KingMidget’s point — but I really haven’t seen any evidence that the antifa acted inappropriately here — I did see where they protected a bunch of ministers and rabbis, though.
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And, actually, I have not seen any images of the nazis showed up dressed as militia. What I saw was a lot of white guys in jeans.
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Antifa and the anarchists were there to protect people, not to start trouble. You might want to read this article on Slate. People who were there describe what was going on.
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As far as I’m concerned the article doesn’t prove the point.
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@King,
I don’t doubt that some on the left came armed with shields and batons. Maybe it was for defense. After all, it was a white-suprematist rally. Who wouldn’t expect violence to break out? But there’s no way to know that and I don’t see much to be gained by trying to see who struck the first blows. Passions were high. By the same token, I don’t believe the KKK types (except for one) intended to kill anyone with cars or otherwise. Bigots can be intelligent without being wise.
The problem in Charlottesville was the audacity of a movement proven by history (Nazi Germany) to be utterly reprehensible. Our President, a man who has no sense of history, who has no moral core, has, by his vacillation now validated their arguments as worthy of attention. Freedom of speech? Yes, I get that. But marching with symbols of slavery and chants of Nazi racism and bigotry? I submit that that is the equivalent of “fighting words” in law. Some provocations exceed reasonable restraint.
To understand Charlottesville requires an understanding of the horror of WW II, the holocaust, the savagery, the racism. It requires recognizing that it could all happen again. The reality of this, for the majority of people, now resides in tomes of history. And Trump has no time for books. Some will follow his example and some won’t. This is the false equivalence we are facing.
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Do you believe the government can ban white supremacists or Nazis from marching, demonstrating or expressing their views?
Do you believe an individual who is offended by the burning of the American flag has the right to violently suppress somebody who wants to burn the flag.
Regarding understanding history … not only am I a student of history, my wife is Jewish. Her uncle survived Auschwitz, but lost his entire family during the Holocaust. I think I get it.
Regarding your view of fighting words … the ACLU and the courts would disagree.
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1. No.
2. No.
3. I have a pretty good grounding in history myself. Among other things, I understand the difference relative to slavery between the Revolutionary War and the Civil War, unlike our President.
4. Fighting words? Then that’s one of the few areas in which I disagree with them. By the way, I do not want to be anywhere near a white-suprematist rally, but if I had to be for some strange reason, I would sure want to be prepared to defend myself because they are inherently violent.
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Members of the radical left tried to violently end a lawful rally of white nationalists. Do you condemn that?
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Violence is always wrong except in self defense. I don’t know enough about the melee in Charlottesville to sort out who attacked whom first. If there was a conspiracy to attack the white nationalists first, I am not aware of it.
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Helen said it well. I guess I’m like you, Elyse. I’m just left sputtering, though maybe for different reasons. I want to agree with Trump about the violence issue, but on the other hand, they really are Nazi’s. Okay, so they have a right to their hate speech. But then again, they are Nazi’s. If only Trump would make it very clear that he, himself, is not a Nazi, maybe I could get more behind what he has to say about this.
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It’s hard to get behind Nazis. Easier to get under their boots 😬
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Elyse,
I can’t believe I never heard of Margaret and Helen before. Thank you for reblogging. It is brilliant and accurate and timely and, and, and.
Cathy
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They are always right on target. Always!
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I haven’t been able to find the words to express the level of angst and fear I feel. But Margaret and Helen found those words for me. Glad you posted this.
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I know — it’s been day after day for me of being able to do more than sputter!
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I would like to meet these ladies and say thank you.
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Me too!
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