Newtown

I know this town.  My late sister Judy lived here for over 20 years.  She raised her three kids there.  They went to Sandy Hook Elementary School.

I know this town.  Its stores, the way the roads twist and turn.

I know this town.  The way the waitresses at the Blue Colony Diner know your order, even when you only come to town a couple of time a year.

I know this town.  It is America.  And America’s children shouldn’t die.  Not because somebody snapped and needed to kill.

I have written numerous posts on guns, gun control and the fact that guns are designed only to kill.  When those guns point at and kill children, well, perhaps it is time that we all took note.  That perhaps, just perhaps, folks should not be allowed to have guns that can do more than simply protect them and their homes.  That people should not be allowed to have guns that can do more than shoot Bambi.  That people should not fucking be able to shoot and kill six year olds.

We do all we can do to protect our children:  bicycle helmets, seat belts, safety restraints on everything they touch.  Screens around trampolines.  The list is endless.

But we don’t stop the possibity of them being blown away in their fucking kindergarten classrooms.

What is wrong with this picture.

130 Comments

Filed under Childhood Traumas, Criminal Activity, Gun control, Health and Medicine, Mental Health

130 responses to “Newtown

  1. Pingback: The Voice of the Problem | FiftyFourandAHalf

  2. I am too liberal for my own good. I have always been pro gun control, but this tragedy has pushed me to the point where I don’t even want to live in a state that allows concealed carry. The pro gun advocates talk a good talk about guns not killing people but people killing people….I’m still waiting for the grand explanation on what harm it’d do to ban 30-round magazines and military assault rifles. Yes, murder still would happen, but if even just one of those Sandy Hook children’s lives was saved when the killer stopped to reload, wouldn’t the ban be worth it?

    • Sadly, we both live in states that allow concealed guns. Here in VA we can take them into bars (oh, but remember, don’t drink!) and into churches and all kinds of other places that really just shout out — SHOOT!

      Of course as a fellow liberal, I see nothing at all wrong with banning large clips. If you can’t hit Bambi with a couple of bullets, perhaps you should go bowling instead. And yes, murder will always be with us. But massacres like we are reading about, hearing about, wringing out hands about, year after year is simply insane. It is the very definition of insanity, in fact.

      Such a sad, sad day for a beautiful group of people in a beautiful town in a beautiful country.

  3. GOF

    As an outsider living in a country with strict gun regulations it is almost impossible to comprehend and I feel overwhelmingly sad at what has happened in your little town.

    • Thanks, GOF. It really is horrible. From start to finish. Those poor families torn apart. I am hoping that this is the last straw and that something will be done. There is talk. Hopefully it will lead to something. I have to think that way, anyway.

  4. So sad. So senseless. So wrong. Wonder where this will all lead?

    • It really is so very sad, PW. I’ve been a bit heartened by the fact that both sides, or the majority of folks anyway are saying that this changed everything. Let’s hope and pray that is true.

  5. For those who have written in defense of protecting the right to own assault weapons….here is my suggestion……would it be an acceptable “experiment” as apparently those children were taking part in , as guinea pigs…..to have you and yours, whoever you love dearly and would never, ever want to part with…..willingly, take your seats in a movie theatre, or a school….then supply a deranged individual bent on murder with an automatic weapon and say four clips of ammo……oh yes, and two additional guns….OR, supply the deranged individual with a knife…or a gun capable of firing only 15 shots…..which would you choose? If it was YOU …forget all the rhetoric….if it was YOU!!!…just answer the question, no excuse making, no conditions, just YOU!, in the exact same situation as these other people..which would you choose.

    • Zannyro,
      I somehow missed your comment. And it is precisely the point that needs to be made. Who will volunteer their children? No sane person, of course.

      We just need to get rid of the potential to kill lots of people. And that means restricting the use of assault weapons to the military, banning large clips. That would be a start, and a compromise.

      We have to do it for our kids, our grandkids and our society.

      Once again, sorry I missed this comment.

  6. Thank you for your post, and for keeping up with the replies and such an emotive subject. I have been reading many people’s posts on this awful tragedy, some expressing deep sadness, others anger, yours was the only one I read targetting the problem.

    A couple of points people make here I have to disagree with, for example, they say a gun is an inanimate object – this is not particulary accurate. A vase is an inanimate object, a gun is a deadly weapon. I woudn’t call anything that can harm as inanimate.

    For people who have a gun in their home to feel safe is a tragedy in itself, I can’t imagine living life with a fear of coming to harm. I would completely give up on humankind if it came to a point if I were to leave the house of a morning, remember to pick up my wallet, my keys…and a gun.

    Reading a paper today something stood out in the report – this was the sheer number of times the murderes name was mentioned, I counted 14 times in a fairly short piece on the main headline article. 14 times his name was highlighted, 13 times more than any of the victims.

    • I am oh so, almost encouraged, Joe. I am listening to Morning Joe, where I often go in the morning to see how the other side is talking. They believe that there has been a sea change with this tragedy that might, just might, start the ball going in the right direction.

      You make several great points — the naming of the shooter who has now become something he could never have been had he just gone on as the anonymous, shy, socially-awkward young man he was. That has been the motivation of some people — Lennon’s assassin for one. We should not mention their names. They should just go down in history as evil men — He Who Must Not Be Named.

      • I must say I was encouraged by CNN’s coverage of the shooting on Friday & Saturday where they refused to name the person who committed the crime. They purposely told the audience he didn’t need any more publicity.

        • Good for them. I didn’t know that. And like Joe, I have always thought that publicity was part of the goal. I know it was for the guys who shot Lennon and Reagan (and who lived to explain themselves). Good for CNN. And I don’t often say that!

  7. Thanks Elyse for such a thought-provoking post. Some of the comments I agree with and others just make me angry, but give insight as to why people think the way they do. I agree there will always be bad people who do evil things – I just can’t fathom why anyone would think it ok for an individual to have a semi-automatic in their home, or carry on their person, that could kill another human being let alone a child – let alone 20 children. If he had been carrying a knife or a bat he likely would not have gotten further than the entrance of the school. And those 20 children would be watching the news today like the rest of us, only the headline might have been more likely “Close call: young man carrying knife apprehended at school entrance”. What a sad country we have created.

  8. I agree with Cooper to a certain extent: we do have the society we’ve asked for, although it was never as idillic (sp) as some thought. The neighborhood I grew up in was always plagued with terror because of poverty and drugs and I never felt safe. I actually don’t have a problem with people owning guns (I am friends with plenty of hunters and I respect their right to hunt)–I have a problem with people owning an arsenal and semi-automatic anything meant to kill masses of people (that’s not sport or protection, that’s a militia). Cooper is also correct that this is a very, very emotional and derisive issue as you an tell by the back and forth. Here is the deal: we’re going to have to “turn down the volume,” get together, and do something creative and constructive to discipline ourselves regarding these lethal weapons out of respect for one another and our children’s future. (We also have to aggressively address mental health issues and gun proximity.) Because if we don’t, none of us (or our children) will end up with a country worth living in. We’ll turn into the “Wild, Wild West” and live in constant fear waiting for the next unhinged person to get ahold of an easily accesible automatic killing machine that guns us down (while we hopefully can draw our own concealed weapon fast enough, inadvertantly killing innocents in our panic) in our places of worship, schools, spas, movie theaters, family reunions, weddings, funerals, etc.

    May God help us all because Sandy Hook is not the end of this madness!

  9. Like abortion, the gun control argument will never be settled because the positions taken are so derisive. Newtown is a heartbreaking tragedy – all the more so as it leaves a feeling of helplessness in its wake. It’s not like Sandy or some other natural disaster where pitching in can ease our sadness for the families having their babies brutally taken from them.

    However, we have the society we have asked for. When I was a kid, it was safe to go outside and play – all day – with friends, without a thought of predators or shootings. When you wanted to ride a bike and were lucky enough to own one, you told Mom where you were headed, hopped on and took off without having to dress like a hockey goalie.

    But we have “progressed” since then. We have asked, demanded, for new, better, faster, sharper, cooler, easier since then – and we’ve received just what we asked for. It is rare for Moms to stay home – not because they don’t want to, but because they have to in order to make ends meet. We don’t have pinball anymore – we have violent video games complete with bloody gun hits on our 52 inch flat screens. Our kids don’t socialize they stay inside glued to virtual killing. We have movies and TV shows that emphasize violence as the answer to everything. The team with the most guns wins – wasn’t that the final message of Avatar??? We have a government that believes war is the best way to protect the US business interests around the world. We have the government contracting with mercenary companies to go out and act as the thugs of the world, while folks like Dick Cheney profit from those companies. We have a government that condones torture in the name of “democracy”. We don’t have a democracy, we have a plutocracy – the people with the gold are making the rules.

    But that’s what happens when we ask for more – and are not content with what we have – and don’t have the capacity to do for ourselves. Sure, an agrarian society has its troubles as well – and we left that way of life centuries ago. I know we can’t go back – we just need to think through what we ask for in the future. And where it will take us.

    • Very profound, very apt comment, Cooper. We are what we have chosen to be. And we are apparently idiots.

      My husband and I have been discussing whether we’ve done our children a disservice by having everything designed so that they can’t get hurt, so that they can never fail. So that they cannot go outside because of the random chance of hurt/violence/whatever. We have harmed our children by protecting them too much.

      And we have let guns proliferate.

      Thanks for your well reasoned comment, Cooper. I really enjoy our back and forths. We don’t always agree, but I always respect what you say.

      • Me too. Respectful conversation is so seriously lacking (especially in those buildings you live/work near!) these days. My thought is that there is much I don’t know in the world but if I listen with an open mind, who knows what can be accomplished.
        Being a perent these days is tough stuff. We do the best we can and go forward. Are we perfect? No. Will our kids be perfect? No – although I know a lot of parents who refuse to believe that. We give them love and the best we have – and 99% of the time, that’s enough to unleash some pretty decent people on the world.

        • I had written you a long, thoughtful comment. And then poof. I hate these bubbles.

          While I don’t think the 50s existed like on TV, it was instructive to be able to go out on your own and do stuff. Go places. Solve your own battles. We have raised a generation of folks who were never allowed out until they were 16 and we gave them the keys to the car. That has always bothered me. I learned to negotiate, learned what to accept and what to fear by having to. My son? Other kids in his generation? Not so much.

          Time will tell. And now before this goes poof, too, I will hit reply

          • I’ve lost many a witty response in the same fashion..especially if using a iPad – one of my work toys. I guess every generation has its own ordeals. My parents had the civil unrest of the 60’s..waiting for the riots to come rumbling down our street and all the hippies to ply us with LSD (neither of which happened).

            I guess, knowing Newtown as you do, brings it a little closer to home. I cannot imagine what those families are going through. So, so senseless.

  10. Our24yeargap: I knew about the 22 kids in china–the difference is I believe they all survived (at least physically). Sometimes the heart of man can be desperately wicked and whatever those of us who are sane can do to slow down the finalization of that wickedness is welcomed. Ask any of the parents whose children are dead in Newtown if they would rather have their child hurt but alive today, and I bet they’d say “yes.” Enough!

    What is missing in the passionate (though misguided) argument for a “right to possess guns” (an amendment that was needed to protect ourselves against England which is no longer relevant, just as slavery is no longer relevant, and the laws were changed) is the humanity and compassion we need to stop allowing our “rights” to supercede the ability for our children to grow up. I appreciate that the 7’11 gunman who slaughtered the 17 year old the other day had a “right” to own a gun; I don’t appreciate that that man was allowed to consume alcohol with a gun in his possession(altering his common sense and humanity) and in his incontrollable anger, slaughter a 17 year old coming home from Christmas shopping just because the teenager was a typical teenager and refused to turn down his music. The man tried to kill all of the teens in the car. It is God’s grace to those teens and that man that he failed. Until we start caring more about each other (we are a Judeo/Christian nation, right????–at least that is what we brag when it is convenient) than our rights, this will happen time and time again, only one of those times it may be someone YOU know. I bet that gun enthusiast mother whose son just destroyed a town, his own life, and took her life would give anything to come back and get rid of those guns.

    Elyse: my thoughts and prayers are with you, your family, and all your friends in Newtown. I can’t stop crying and I, for one, won’t stop fighting the NRA and their inhumanity and self-centeredness for as long as I have breath.

    • Thanks for addressing the Chinese tragedy. And thanks for being there and listening.

      I can’t stop crying, either. I was in a class of kindergarteners on Tuesday. I keep seeing their faces, hearing their laughs.

    • Yes, those particular children in China survived, but it’s been an repeated event and not all have survived. There have been multiple stabbings in China schools and not all children survived.

      As for this…”I don’t appreciate that that man was allowed to consume alcohol with a gun in his possession”…well that is illegal. You are not allowed to consume ANY alcohol and have a gun in your possession. But that doesn’t stop people, does it? Drugs are illegal, but that doesn’t stop people either, does it?

      And this comment…”this will happen time and time again, only one of those times it may be someone YOU know”…it was someone I knew! It was 3 SEPARATE people I knew in 3 SEPARATE incidents! One was working, not allowed to carry a weapon, and was murdered because he had no way to protect himself. The other was work, was an officer, and stopped a car. The passenger opened fired and he died however a bystander nearby, who had the right to carry his weapon, came to the officers aid and shot the shooter. (Not right to shot a shooter, but it spared maybe someone else down the road.) And finally, the last one…killed for coming to someone’s rescue, also while working. All he did was step off the firetruck and was killed.

      Bad people will ALWAYS be able to get guns! Just like drugs! My problem is when you say I shouldn’t be allowed a gun because these criminals have killed with guns…that is just stupid. Take away my guns, fine, how exactly do you plan to get the guns from the criminals?? Ask them nicely to turn them in?? Great idea! New York has one of the strictest gun laws and they also have the largest black market for guns…gun control seems to really be helping them, huh?

  11. Great post Elyse. My own family stays close to this place and I came to know about this tragic event through news. Nothing to say nothing to argue; just I am wishing, hoping and praying for a better world.

  12. Michelle Gillies

    I can’t help but wonder about your Sister’s three kids and what they are thinking today. The fact is I live really far away, have never heard of the town before and know no one involved and I have been weeping since I started following the story. As a human being you can’t help but be touched by something like this. For you and your family it would be magnified. For the families involved in yesterday’s tragedy that magnification would by 1,000 times bigger.
    I live in Canada where the gun laws are much stricter than the US. We do not have “the right to bare arms”. Only law officials are allowed to carry weapons. We do not have the NRA. We do allow hunting and hunting licences and proper procedures for hunting rifles etc. I would like to say that these gun incidents never happen here. The truth is … they do. Almost always it is with an illegal gun or weapon. I can say we don’t have the magnitude of the incidents that you Americans do. They are not as frequent and the numbers are not as high. My point is that more gun control will not stop it completely but perhaps the harder you make it for this stuff to happen the less it will happen. Each stumbling block you put in front of a person that is about to do such a thing could be the one that stops them.

    • Oh, Michelle, cutting down on the number of them would be a huge leap in the right direction. Just a few minutes ago, my husband told me that someone else just opened fire at a hospital. A hospital!

      I can’t stop thinking of those kids, or the bravery of the six adults (like the 27 year old teacher who hid the kids, told the gunman that they were all in the gym and was then shot dead herself.

      The first step in my mind is to limit and track quantities of ammunition. That would at least give law enforcement a heads-up on where trouble might start. We do that with bomb making materials — why not guns and ammunition? Who the hell needs 3,000 rounds? (That’s what the shooter in Aurora, CO got via internet).

      But we Americans as a society need to take a good look in the mirror. What kind of country do we want to be? Because otherwise, perhaps moving the capital to Dodge City might be necessary.

      Thanks for your inquiry about my relatives. I am trying to let them grieve in their own ways — I try to only write about my own.

  13. I’m sure I’ll piss many people off with this post but I posted a blog about this, you can read it on my page.

    Did you know there was another school incident yesterday? Where innocent school children where seriously injured? No? Well look it up, China has had an out break of stabbings in schools and it happened again yesterday…there were no guns involved.

    You take away the guns from the law abiding citizens it just makes them sitting ducks for the criminals who will always find a way to have guns. Guns are like drugs, here to stay, weather they are legal or not, and there is no removing them. You take away the right to protect yourself, that doesn’t mean the criminals are going to turn their guns in, you just make everyone else an easy target for them.

    So your solution is to take away the guns? Fine, now what, they find bombs? Fly airplanes into buildings? People that want to kill and harm will always find a way to do so! Take away my right to protect myself and those around me…yes that will stop the crime! Chicago has one the highest gun crime rates in the country and it is ILLEGAL to carry a gun on you, whether open carry or conceal and carry…it is ILLEGAL! And it has NOT stopped gun crimes because the criminals know that people are not allowed to protect themselves…this makes them an easy target.

    I am very comfortable going into a city, or just being around my town, because I have done the proper paperwork, I have taken the class, and I have to license to protect myself and those around me. I am not scared, because I know I can defend myself. I can protect myself because I have the right to carry my weapon! I have the ability to not be another statistic. I refuse to be an easy target, I refuse to be that “sitting duck”. Take away my gun and you make me an easy statistic, you make me an easy target because criminals will ALWAYS have guns! Just like they always have these drugs that are “illegal” too.

    The problem isn’t gun control, we don’t need more of that. We need more information, more prevention, more education. Just because one person made a mistake does NOT mean every single LEGAL gun owner out there will do the same.

    And for the record…the deadliest school murder in the US was not from guns…it was from a bomb. Look it up. Columbine was not the deadliest school murder…

    • Piss me off? Yeah, a bit. But we need to talk — our society as a whole needs to have a discussion about what to do to prevent these completely foreseeable events.

      You have raised a lot of points. I will take a stab at them.

      Yes, people murder. They do bad things. However, as a society we try to control those things. As a result of planes flying into buildings we have increased our surveillance of our skies; as a result of the Oklahoma City bombing purchase of bomb making materials is monitored. As a result of a bridge falling down, we inspect our bridges. We take action to prevent the next tragedy.

      With guns? We do the opposite. We double down. People are today buying more and more guns to prevent something that they fucking won’t see coming.

      And you think you’re safer packing a guy? Research disagrees. I have cut and pasted an abstract from an epidemiological study of guns in the home. It is over 10 years old, and I think that the problem has only gotten worse. You can see that at the end of my response.

      I take my personal safety pretty seriously. So I don’t do stupid things. I don’t walk in unsafe places, i watch people around me. As a society, we have laws and police to help keep us safe. But now our society denigrates the folks who are there to help us; the police and firefighters are having to fight for living wages. They are there to protect you and me, so that we don’t have to carry guns.

      You as a gun owner are more likely to die by gunfire than I am simply by the fact that you own a gun. Murder, suicide and accidental death are 4 times as likely to find you than me. And if you have children, or if children visit, then I hope you are smarter than the guys whose 6 year old was shot and killed last week when the guy hadn’t properly cleaned the barrel of his gun, it fell and fatally shot his son.

      The mother of the shooter had the guns for her protection. How did that work out?

      That fact not withstanding, nobody needs a gun that fires multiple rounds. Nobody. The only purpose of them is to kill. And I’m not talking about Bambi.

      *********

      Here is the Abstract
      Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the home.
      Kellermann AL, Somes G, Rivara FP, Lee RK, Banton JG.
      Source

      Center for Injury Control, Rollins School of Public Health, Emory University, Atlanta, GA, USA.
      Abstract
      OBJECTIVE:

      Determine the relative frequency with which guns in the home are used to injure or kill in self-defense, compared with the number of times these weapons are involved in an unintentional injury, suicide attempt, or criminal assault or homicide.
      METHODS:

      We reviewed the police, medical examiner, emergency medical service, emergency department, and hospital records of all fatal and nonfatal shootings in three U.S. cities: Memphis, Tennessee; Seattle, Washington; and Galveston, Texas.
      RESULTS:

      During the study interval (12 months in Memphis, 18 months in Seattle, and Galveston) 626 shootings occurred in or around a residence. This total included 54 unintentional shootings, 118 attempted or completed suicides, and 438 assaults/homicides. Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense, including three that involved law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty. For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.
      CONCLUSIONS:

      Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense.

      • And my response follows….

        You said, “People are today buying more and more guns to prevent something that they fucking won’t see coming.”
        –Well, yes, people are buying more guns than ever, but it’s not just from this, it’s just in general because the world is one messed up place. It’s not to “prevent something they won’t see coming”, it’s to protect themselves when it does come.

        As for this response, “I take my personal safety pretty seriously. So I don’t do stupid things. I don’t walk in unsafe places, i watch people around me.”
        –I’m sorry, but that is the most uneducated answer I have seen thus far…you “don’t walk into unsafe places”?!?! So that movie theater was unsafe? That school was unsafe? That church shot up in Illinois was unsafe? The grocery store massacre makes grocery stores unsafe…where exactly do you walk into??

        And this one, “As a society, we have laws and police to help keep us safe.”
        –Also uneducated…law stop people?! Yea…criminals just love following laws…ha

        This one, “But now our society denigrates the folks who are there to help us; the police and firefighters are having to fight for living wages. They are there to protect you and me, so that we don’t have to carry guns.”
        –For the record…I AM THESE PEOPLE! I am here to protect your life and safety! I am one of THOSE PEOPLE that fight for living wages, making very little money, to protect you, to keep you safe. I am one of those people that enter scenes like these to try to save a life, not stopping to think about my own.

        This one, “You as a gun owner are more likely to die by gunfire than I am simply by the fact that you own a gun. Murder, suicide and accidental death are 4 times as likely to find you than me. And if you have children, or if children visit, then I hope you are smarter than the guys whose 6 year old was shot and killed last week when the guy hadn’t properly cleaned the barrel of his gun, it fell and fatally shot his son.”
        –I just don’t even know how to respond to this one. I am a safe gun owner, when people are over my guns are put away, when I’m not here my guns stay locked up if not with me. We educate in our family the harm guns can bring, the care they need, and how to treat them. People are afraid of guns and those are the people that weren’t raised around them, knowing how they work, and knowing what they can do. I’ve been shooting since I was 6, that is when I shot my first 9mm, and you don’t see me acting stupid with them, you don’t see me shooting people. I trained my cousins on my guns, they know how to treat them, and they know how to use them if they need them. It’s about education and responsibility.

        I knew this one would come, “The mother of the shooter had the guns for her protection. How did that work out?”
        –You can’t protect yourself from everything, you can’t keep the car accident from happening, you can’t keep accidents from happening. He was determined, one way or another he would have done this. Rather killing her with her own guns, or finding his own else where, he would have done this.

        I hear this all the time, “That fact not withstanding, nobody needs a gun that fires multiple rounds. Nobody. The only purpose of them is to kill. And I’m not talking about Bambi.”
        –Yes, there is a reason for guns that fire multiple rounds. I hunt, in woods with bears. Brown bears, black bears, other animals that can kill me…you think they are going to stop so I can reload?!?! That just makes me laugh! You think someone coming after me with a knife is going to stop so I can reload?!?! You think some gun that wants to take and rape me is going to stop so I can reload?!?! Seriously!!

        –I don’t need to read these, I’ve read it all. I’ve spent hours upon hours reading like crazy, the good, the bad…I’ve read it all. Have you read? Have you read the story of the daughter that watched her mother and father get killed by a gunmen and hid helplessly because she left her gun at home that day? Or the little old lady that always carried her gun, but went to visit family in Illinois and left her gun at home to follow the law…she was raped, beaten, and then stabbed to death.

        Guns are NOT the problem! Bad people are the problem! And they will always be here!

        Suicides will always be there, weather with a gun or another form, they will always find a way.

        Stupid people will always be stupid, you can’t fix that.

        • Nope. You can’t fix stupid. We just have decidedly different definitions of what is and what is not stupid.

        • I would ask for a justification of a full-auto assault rifle or sub-machine gun – or any magazine of more than, say, 15 rounds on a rifle. (I’d argue 10, but that’s based on biased experience.) I’m just trying to understand why an M1 Garand or my trusty No.1 MkIII Lee-Enfield (bolt-action, 10 rounds) wouldn’t be sufficient for both hunting and home defence.
          And sadly, you and I (as educated and SAFE gun owners) are in the minority. There is a story every week around here, if not more often, of kids shooting each other playing with guns. And I’m in the sticks, 2 hours east of Columbus – not exactly an area with a high population density! (Just a population OF high density, if you get my meaning. 8O )

          • That is irrelevant because those guns are ILLEGAL! But they cause problems…funny, just what I was saying….making something ILLEGAL does NOT take it away!

            But I completely agree…we are a minority. But you can’t ration with people…when something kills someone it’s all the sudden a problem. Don’t look at how that same item saved someone…just that it killed. That’s all that matters. You will NEVER stop someone that wants a gun from getting a gun!

            • I agree with you on laws not stopping criminals – I’m from Chicago, and the death toll there this year is astronomical, despite some VERY tough gun laws.
              I must apologise, I mis-spoke (mis-typed?), I meant to say SEMI-auto on the assault rifles and SMGs. I would think that for hunting, you’d rather have a larger 30-cal (or bigger) round than the small .223-cal of the M-16/AR-15 family, or the 9mm of most pistols. Again, it may be my experiential bias, but I’d lean toward the M1911 .45cal as being the maximum pistol you’d need – 8 rounds instead of the 13-15 of European pistols, but a better “stopping” round than the 9mm. Again, I’m looking for viewpoints other than that of a military historian – especially a street officer who has faced off against a variety of threats with a limited selection of firepower. (Additional, “bonus” question – is the 12-guage shooting buck REALLY all that useful for police, or is it more of an intimidation weapon?)
              Thanks for the information you’ve provided, I appreciate it.

              • I agree with your gun choice, however I am a very small girl…I can’t hide that .45. I choose a 9mm with more rounds for that stopping power (if/when) needed. Mine only holds 10 rounds, plus one in the chamber. My other 9mm, much smaller to hide, only holds 5, plus one in the chamber…not much power there. I think the ones that hold 15 or so are great for law enforcement and range time, but you can’t tell people they must only be used for that…so take them away? Not likely because people can always make longer clips.

                And the 12-guage…that is just pure intimidation! Nothing more because it has no range…anyone that takes off running knows that. It’s used for close contact and intimidation.

              • Thanks for the information. I’m gonna have to shove off now, bedtime awaits, but I appreciate all the info you passed on to me.

              • And thank you for your information and understanding!

    • …And for the record…the deadliest school murder in the US was not from guns…it was from a bomb. Look it up. Columbine was not the deadliest school murder…

      So that’s alright then. tell that to the folks of Newton.

      • Good point, Bill. All of yours were, in fact, well said and thought. I just keep crying so can’t get to all of the comments.

      • I never said it was alright! Don’t change my words. I’m saying that taking away guns doesn’t solve the problem, people that want to kill will always find a way to do it.

        • And with semi-automatic weapons they increase the carnage. That is a fact. These weapons increase the efficiency. And while I am all for efficiency in some things, increasing the efficiency of killing is not one of them.

        • I understand, and apologise. But it’s guns that are the problem at the moment, we’ll deal with the other weapons as and when.

      • I never said that! Don’t put words in my writing or change my words around. I never said it was alright! Not once! What I DID say was people that want to kill will always find a way, rather a gun, a bomb, or another way…they will always find a way.

        • Other ways are monitored by the US (and other) governments. You buy bomb-making materials, you are going to hear from Uncle Sam. Guns are the only weapons of mass destruction that are not only permitted they are encouraged by folks too stupid to know their danger.

          • Uncle Sam only monitors you if you buy it at once, on a credit card. Start buying that stuff with cash, at separate times, in different stores…you just by passed Uncle Sam.

            • Enough. Way more than enough.

              I tried to have a sensible discussion, but didn’t really expect to have to argue blow by blow with someone whose mind is in cement.

              This is an excerpt from a previous post of mine on the subject:

              Yup, when we should be shouting “STOP THIS MADNESS!” we instead cow-tow to the National Rifle Association and to the cowboys who are oh-so-sure that if they had only been there with their gun, well, then the outcome would be way different. If only ….

              Bullshit. It is a fantasy.

              Remember when Congresswoman Gabby Giffords was shot? Nineteen people were shot that day at a local grocery story when a crazy person opened fire.

              Did you know that seconds/minutes after the shooting, a man carrying his own gun came out of the store and saw somebody holding a gun on a man? Yeah, it’s true. Here’s a smidge of the story:

              “[Joe] Zamudio was in a nearby drug store when the shooting began, and he was armed. He ran to the scene and helped subdue the killer. Television interviewers are celebrating his courage, and pro-gun blogs are touting his equipment. “Bystander Says Carrying Gun Prompted Him to Help,” says the headline in the Wall Street Journal.

              But before we embrace Zamudio’s brave intervention as proof of the value of being armed, let’s hear the whole story. “I came out of that store, I clicked the safety off, and I was ready,” he explained on Fox and Friends. “I had my hand on my gun. I had it in my jacket pocket here. And I came around the corner like this.” Zamudio demonstrated how his shooting hand was wrapped around the weapon, poised to draw and fire. As he rounded the corner, he saw a man holding a gun. “And that’s who I at first thought was the shooter,” Zamudio recalled. “I told him to ‘Drop it, drop it!’”

              But the man with the gun wasn’t the shooter. He had wrested the gun away from the shooter. “Had you shot that guy, it would have been a big, fat mess,” the interviewer pointed out.

              Yeah. A big, fat mess. Mr. Zamudi would have added to the carnage, not helped. BECAUSE HE DIDN’T KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON.

              When a tragedy like today’s shooting in Aurora, Colorado, happens, there is only one person who knows pretty much what’s happening – the shooter. Yeah, the bad guy. Everybody else is reacting.

              And no matter how cool, how brave, how well meaning a would-be hero is in a situation, the sane gun owner is unlikely to shoot first. And if he/she doesn’t, the bad guy will. And unlike in the movies, in real life, you can’t just get back up.

              ***
              I don’t think you are a bad person because you feel you can save the day by carrying a gun and by preventing meaningful discussion of what we as a society should do to limit access and use of guns. But that doesn’t make me believe that you and everyone else with this cowboy mentality doesn’t have blood on his/her hands. I believe that people who think that the current gun laws are just ducky all have blood on their hands. And this time much of the blood is from children.

              You have turned what was a post of sadness into one glorifying your gun rights and beliefs. My blog is not the appropriate forum for that. Yours is. Do it there.

              I have been polite and as patient as I can possibly be with someone I think is so deeply wrong. But my patience is gone.

              Go away. Additional comments from you will be sent to trash.

    • Actually, Virginia Tech was the biggest mass shooting. And I was on the phone with a woman who lived there, whose husband worked in one of the buildings where the shootings took place and whose daughter was in daycare across the street. Yeah, that was another lovely day in the neighborhood.

  14. Moe

    Elye – you and I share Newtown although your connection is stronger. But I do remember that diner and mostly I remember the flag pole and how for generations everyone just politely drove around it. Until now, that was the iconic image of Newtown,, but now . ..

    I weep with you.

    • Thanks Moe. All day yesterday I kept thinking about that diner. I’m sure there were (and are again today) dozens of reporters hanging out there, slinging back a few to numb what they’ve seen. I spent many many happy hours there laughing. But I’m pretty sure there is little if any laughter there.

      This is just too close to home. Literally and figuratively.

  15. Nicely said. I heard a comedian (Chris Rock if I’m remembering correctly) once say that instead of gun control laws we should tax bullets – like $5000 a bullet. His thinking was that if you had to pay that much for a bullet, you’d think more before using it.

  16. Thoughts and prayers with heavy hearts to the people of Newtown, Connecticut.

  17. I am on vacation, we turned on news and saw this. My heart broke, I sat on the foot of the bed and wept. Tears flowed from my eyes as my heart cracked.

    If we don’t change our infatuation with guns and violence we damn ourselves. I am sick of this. I am sick of pandering to the NRA. I am sick of saying, it is okay. I am sick of saying yes please carry your guns into bars, restaurants, colleges, malls, colleges, schools. I am sick to death of the NRA saying if there were more armed civilians all these mass shootings wouldn’t take place.

    • Val, it must be particularly hard for you to watch and listen.

      So sad. So preventable. So fucking stupid. Again it happens and the reaction is for the gun folks to double down. I’m sure gun sales are skyrocketing today — gotta get mine before they take them away. Fucking assholes.

      I tried to write something a little more lucid last night, but failed. I’m still trying.

      Sending you cyber hugs.

      • Yeah, it is pretty tough but mostly it just pisses me off. Stunning in ignorance. I posted this morning and while I await my husband to return with breakfast I am responding.

        You are right the NRA will double down. Like the rest of the Right they are out of step with the real nation, most of whom support regulation. I am so tired of this, so tired of being ruled by these Azzhats with money and a mindset of Neanderthal’s.

        • I’m just reading your post now.

          I too am sick of these folks. They are dangerous to mankind and womankind and now, the last vestige of a sensible society that protects its children has been allowed to fall.

          It is a sad country we live in.

  18. Thanks for sharing this. The ripples will run far and wide in this particular pond.

    • It is so sad, Bill. And your other points above were apt. We need to learn from the UK and other places where reasonable people make reasonable laws and restrictions. It’s for the public good. In the best interest of all of us.

  19. I have such a heavy heart today, something has to be done.

    • I was trying to write a post about other times and tragedies when Congress has acted appropriately in the wake. It has happened before and maybe this time. Maybe this time sanity will take a foothold in the battle for reasonable gun laws.

  20. It’s sad to be having this conversation again so soon after the last time (or ever again, really.)
    I hope Newtown can pull itself together and comfort each other in the coming weeks.

  21. At 48 years old if I wanted to purchase a pack of smokes at our local convenient store I would be put through the third degree. EVERYONE must show photo I.D. to smoke. I have seen white haired men show their driver licenses. Yet, a 20 year old BOY has the ability to purchase an arsenal and ammunition without ANYONE raising a freaking eyebrow!
    Elyse, this must sit a little heavier on your heart knowing this town so well. My heart aches at the thought of those babies and it has shattered at the thought of their parents.
    How many tragedies have to occur? How many innocent lives have to be destroyed? When will someone get the balls to stand up to the the god forsaken NRA?

  22. Elyse, I may piss you off like I did Benzeknees, but I gotta argue a bit with you. I own 5 firearms, 3 rifles and 2 pistols. They’re all WW1 or WW2 artifacts, and I’ve only put blank rounds down them. While there is, I believe, a use for firearms for hunting and target shooting and yes, re-enacting, I also agree that there need to be controls – better controls than our patchwork set we have today. Chicago has some of the toughest gun laws in the land, but is on course to have a record number of murders this year. The problem is, punks can drive over to Indiana and buy a full-auto AK47 with multiple 30-round magazines. I don’t pretend to have all the answers, but I can see a co-existence of stiff laws (and stiffer penalties) to keep the idiots and crazies at bay, while allowing law-abiding folk like myself to own weapons for their historic or hunting or targeting use.
    And yes, I think the NRA is FAR more the problem than ANY kind of solution.
    So – are we still friends? ;)

    • If I may, all gun owners are respectable law abiding citizens – until they break the law. Like this young man. If he had NO access to firearms he couldn’t have massacared so many people on the spur of the moment. he might have lashed out, he might have killed a couple of people but no 27 in a matter of minutes.

      After a similar shooting here in the Uk at Dunblain the laws were changed, so that people who had hunting guns, they have to be in locked cabinets – inspected by the police. Gun club memebers have to leave their firearms at the clubhouse.

      Your owning “period” guns is not the problem. It’s the 300 million guns that have been marketed to the US population.

      • That is a reasonable solution. Of course, the UK started from a more reasonable position. Without the Wild West mentality. Without the NRA.

      • twindaddy

        Your assertion that he couldn’t have massacred so many people without access to firearms is dead wrong. It may be the easiest way, but there are other ways to kill multiple people without firearms.

        If you think murders are going to cease if firearms are banned or regulated you are sorely mistaken. People were murdered before guns were invented and if by some miracle every gun on the planet disappeared right now murders would continue to happen.

        Guns are not the problem. People are the problem. I’m sick of people blaming inanimate objects that aren’t capable of making any sort of decision for the actions of sick and/or evil people.

        • My teenage son has just gone through what I call the “angry phase” His hormones were going and he was angrey all the time. he got quite bad; he would shout and yell, he kicked things over, kicked a door in, broke a window, nearly had physical fights with us and others. He just didn’t know what to do with his feelings.

          You throw a gun into that mix – and I dread to think what could have happend. he’s ok now, plus we’ve learned better how to deal with this surprising behaviour. He doesn’t have any real deep mental or social problems. But if he did, and he had access to guns – then you could have been reading about him in the newspapers.

          Ryan’s mother, an ordinary school teachers had two high powered hand guns, and an assault riffle plus a large store of ammunition at home, because she like guns and it was her right to to do so – well, look how that turned out!

          yes it’s people not guns that kill. But which people are we talking about? The people who peddle them like narcotics, the people who subscribe to the rediculous macho notion of the right to bear arms, the gun owners who don’t secure their weapons properly. The politicians who cave into the NRA’s unending lobbying and who continue to relax the laws so that people can buy guns easier than they can booze.

          In 2010, over 14000 Americans were shot to death. Nothing is done. When 3000 were killed on 9/11 our countries went to war with two other countries to stop it happening again.

          We can’t get rid of people, so let’s get rid of the guns.

          • twindaddy

            Yeah, sure. If you get rid of guns murder will cease to exist entirely. Why didn’t I think of that?

            Again, murder existed before there were guns and if you take them away murder will continue to exist. Guns are not the problem. People are.

            • Actually, I think everyone knows that we are not going to get rid of all guns. They need much more regulation and selectivity as to what kind of weapons are permissable. A lot of these guns should either be on a battlefield or locked up in a surpervised gun club.

              As the local Priest in Newton said “we do not live in a hunting range or on a battlefield…… – so why are these weapons here?”

              The point of my story above was that when someone flips (and we all do to a varying extent at some point) we should not be afforded the opportunity of having automatic weapons handy when we do.

              We are not talking about eradicating murder – but reducing the chance of yet another masacre in the community. Saying stuff like that reduces your argument.

              This must not be a polarised argument. To be against guns in certain circumstances doesn’t mean someone is coming round to your house to take away your personal pistol.

              • twindaddy

                I don’t have a personal pistol. I don’t own a gun. I just feel that the blame is being placed somewhere where it shouldn’t.

                I have no problem with certain weapons being restricted or making it harder to be guns. It’s in the best interests of everybody for those things to be done.

                However, doing those things is merely treating the symptom and not the problem. Humanity’s penchant for violence is the problem. And it’s been a problem throughout history. How do you treat that?

              • TwinDaddy,

                We can no longer carry fingernail files, tweezers and cosmetics in bottles containing more than 3 oz onto a plane for fear that someone will have something that can kill the 200-600 people on board. We have made modifications to the way we live. These modifications are a pain in the ass, because I am pretty damn sure that I will not use my fingernail clippers in a violent manner.

                Something must be done. Period. You cannot get rid of the people. You cannot know which one is crazy. You cannot know which one will snap. All that can be done is that the means to kill will be reduced. And to do that we need to reduce easy accessibility to guns, especially those with the sole purpose of getting the most bang for the buck.

                Something has got to give and it has got to come from the gun-owner side.

                I am very glad you don’t own guns. You have kids and i would worry about them.

              • twindaddy

                We can no longer carry those objects on to a plane because the government recognizes that guns aren’t the only way to kill people.

                Also, gun owners are not going to concede anything. In fact, they are dug in even more deeply. I’ve heard it said from gun owners that they want teachers trained and armed no so that the next time something like this happens the teacher can kill the son of a bitch who’s shooting.

                Elyse, you know is well as I that people who want these guns will get them. Legally or not. So my point is this (again): find the root cause and treat it. Guns (like people) aren’t going away.

              • Careful about the generalisations, Twindaddy. As a gun owner, I sure don’t want armed teachers in schools. I don’t want preachers spraying lead into their congregation if a truck backfires outside. I want LESS guns, LESS ammo, LESS firepower out on the street. I’ve seen policemen wielding 9mm pistols shot down by kids with AK-47s and SKS’s, and I want to see a WHOLE lot less of that.
                If you start using terms like “ALL gun owners” (emphasis mine), you get into the “us vs. them” mode of thought. WE should want safer schools and streets, whether WE own World War 2 tanks or LOATHE the sight of squirt guns.
                Just sayin’. No insults intended.

              • twindaddy

                I didn’t say ALL gun owners. But the ones I know have said this and I’ve seen it posted online in multiple places.

              • And they are the ones who will sabotage any effort at agreement.
                I read your wording of “gun owners” to mean “ALL gun owners” – my words, and mine alone. Sorry for the misinterpretation.

              • It’s time we stop beating this dead horse.

                We can do so again after the next gun massacre.

              • Far be it from me to abuse a relative of my beloved Blackjack. Consider my lips (fingers?) zipped.

              • Just to get some perspective on the problem. 50 percent of the world’s hand guns are in America which makes up 5 percent of the world’s population. How could that situation come about?

              • twindaddy

                There’s a lot of people out there like them.

              • There are a lot of people out there like me, too TwinDaddy. Of course, my side has no guns.

          • twindaddy

            And if you think buying a gun is easier than buying booze, I suggest you try both and tell me which gives you a bigger headache.

        • TwinDaddy, Your assertion that because it could have been done in another way is the NRA line. How does it taste? Yes, he might have had built bomb (gosh, our government monitors most bomb making materials, plus it takes time to build one. You can’t just get pissed off and pick one up as a general rule) or perhaps chemical weapons would have worked (ditto — it hasn’t happened successfully in the United States because we REGULATE things that can kill small and large groups of people. We protect ourselves from many, many potentially harmful things. Except guns.

          Because you probably aren’t reading all the comments on this, I will repost an abstract I posted in response to someone else spouting the NRA bullshit.

          Guns ARE inanimate objects. But they are built to kill — and semi- and automatic guns are built to be picked up by a human and used to do just that. Kill. Yesterday it was 20 kindergarteners in the school where my much loved family members attended; they may know parents of some of the victims.

          As a society — which means a grouping of people for the common benefit of all — we need to have a discussion and figure out a way to stop the carnage. And the NRA needs to stop trying to convince people that the way to stop gun deaths in by buying more guns and guns that can kill more people.

          I sincerely hope that you as a parent do not have guns around your house.

          Here is the Abstract (the emphasis is mine)
          Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the home.
          Kellermann AL, Somes G, Rivara FP, Lee RK, Banton JG.
          Source

          Center for Injury Control, Rollins School of Public Health, Emory University, Atlanta, GA, USA.
          Abstract
          OBJECTIVE:

          Determine the relative frequency with which guns in the home are used to injure or kill in self-defense, compared with the number of times these weapons are involved in an unintentional injury, suicide attempt, or criminal assault or homicide.
          METHODS:

          We reviewed the police, medical examiner, emergency medical service, emergency department, and hospital records of all fatal and nonfatal shootings in three U.S. cities: Memphis, Tennessee; Seattle, Washington; and Galveston, Texas.
          RESULTS:

          During the study interval (12 months in Memphis, 18 months in Seattle, and Galveston) 626 shootings occurred in or around a residence. This total included 54 unintentional shootings, 118 attempted or completed suicides, and 438 assaults/homicides. Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense, including three that involved law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty. For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.

          CONCLUSIONS:

          Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense.

          • twindaddy

            Just because it’s the “NRA line” doesn’t mean it’s not true. Anyone deranged enough to go and kill a bunch of children will FIND away to do it. Whether guns are available or not.

            If he didn’t have guns readily available that guy could’ve grabbed a machete or a Louisville Slugger to kill a bunch of people, too. And what happens then? Are we going to ban machetes and baseball bats?

            My point is that we are focusing on the symptom rather than the root cause. This guy was sick and it wasn’t properly addressed. THAT’S the problem. Not guns.

            • Easy access to guns is a lethal way to kill lots and lots of people. Baseball bats and machetes can be used as weapons; that is not their only purpose. The teachers who ran towards the shooter on Friday may have had a chance against those weapons or against many others. Nobody has a chance against a gun.

              Sorry TwinDaddy, but I feel angry about this to way beyond where I can see your side of it. I do try. But I think you are deeply, dangerously mistaken.

              I can no longer discuss this. I am sick to my stomach from the rage I feel. And from the certainty that nothing will be done to prevent the next tragedy. Not one fucking thing.

              • twindaddy

                You have every right to be upset and angry. A sick and heinous crime has been committed by a sick individual.

                You know I’m with you when it comes to stricter gun laws, but I am not going to blame guns for actions that they can’t possibly decide to take. People are mammals and as such, will behave like them.

                No matter how civilized we think we are, at base we are still animals. There are always going to be people who kill, no matter how barbaric society views such things to be.

                I abhor violence in all forms. I can’t stand boxing, MMA, UFC, or any other form of “entertainment” of that sort, but some people will always enjoy violence no matter what you try to teach them.

                My point, again, is this: people are the problem. Not guns. Crimes like this existed before guns were invented, and will continue to exist if they were to disappear. Be sickened. Be pissed off. But direct your anger where it belongs: with the sick fuck who did this.

        • Sorry, Twindaddy I have to disagree with you on part of your point. If guns fell off the face of the earth, you’re right, not all murders would cease. BUT mass murders would definitely decrease. When you have to get up close & personal, get the blood on you & actually stab someone with a knife or sword, it takes a lot of work & you would probably run out of energy before you could kill 27 people. Using a semi-automatic gun is just too easy to keep pulling the trigger.

        • I couldn’t agree with you more! Thank you!

          • And I was referring to the original post by twindaddy, this one:

            Your assertion that he couldn’t have massacred so many people without access to firearms is dead wrong. It may be the easiest way, but there are other ways to kill multiple people without firearms.

            If you think murders are going to cease if firearms are banned or regulated you are sorely mistaken. People were murdered before guns were invented and if by some miracle every gun on the planet disappeared right now murders would continue to happen.

            Guns are not the problem. People are the problem. I’m sick of people blaming inanimate objects that aren’t capable of making any sort of decision for the actions of sick and/or evil people.

      • Actually, Bill, that would be completely acceptable to me, and from what I’ve heard from the few hunters I’ve spoken with, they’d agree. Believe me, I’d support just about any common sense solution to this problem. Unfortunately, people start saying things while still highly emotional, and come up with impossible solutions like “get rid of all guns”. (Present company excluded.) That will never happen in our lifetimes – there are just TOO many weapons out there. What gun owners NEED to do is push good solutions – again, like the ones you mention, Bill – and the NRA should be in the lead. Sadly, they will scream about liberals trampling our Constitutional rights (sorry, the 2nd Amendment doesn’t apply any more if you read the whole statement) and stir up illogical fear. (Yeah – kinda redundant. Sorry, the brain is offline today.)
        I wish all gun owners could see the sense in these standards you describe. With the NRA in defence mode, I don’t see it happening.
        But thanks for your comments. I appreciate you taking the time to add your insights.

    • John, I don’t have a problem with people playing with guns. I have a problem with people killing with them. And we need to have laws that reflect the fact that guns + killing = bad. We don’t. We look the other way.

      There need to be gun laws that
      (1) outlaw automatic and semi-automatic weapons. Nobody needs them.
      (2) prevent the importation of weapons like the semi-automatic glock — one of the weapons used in Friday’s shooting; the Europeans scoff at our gun crime statistics but are perfectly willing to profit from it;
      (3) We need to look at the politicians beholden to the NRA, just as we are starting to look at those who are in Grover Norquist’s pocket. Should they stay in office? Are they voting, on this important issue, for the public health and welfare?
      (4) We need to stop wringing our hands, shaking our heads and saying “oh dear” and DEMAND our politicians act.
      NOW IS THE TIME.

      We are still friends, John. I don’t think you’re going to shoot anybody. It’s everybody else out there I worry about.

      • First, you only want to ban Glocks because that’s what he used, but don’t forget that the majority of the POLICE OFFICERS out there PROTECTING YOU carry that EXACT SAME GUN!

        We do not “look the other way” as you keep stating or else this discussing and the discussing by the government would not be happening…

        And finally, you are “don’t have a problem with people playing with guns”…that is by far the WORST comment you could have made for your argument! People should NEVER “play with guns”! And your poor choice of words here made your entire response just uneducated.

    • Moe

      John, I think that when there are calls for gun control, many people hear “no guns”. I’m a flaming liberal and even I dont want that. I grew up in a house with guns, used entirely for duck hunting and skeet shooting. I’m even old enough that when I was a kid, my brother kept an open rack on the wall in their bedroom with three rifles and the ammo in an uncloced drawer at the bottom of the rack.

      The NRA is, as you say, the problem. Most members agree that there shoould be some controls, especially on automatic weapons and on the ease with which just anyone can aquire guns. But the NRA cries ‘they want ot take our guns away’ and that’s what pols hear from their constituents. The NRA should be part of the solution. But they’re the opposite.

      • “The NRA is, as you say, the problem. Most members agree that there shoould be some controls, especially on automatic weapons and on the ease with which just anyone can aquire guns.”

        Yes, ANYONE can acquire a gun…legally, but also ILLEGALLY! And that is exactly where the majority of them come from…ILLEGALLY! This particular case, no, he had them legally, but people forget to look at the fact that the MAJORITY of gun crimes happen with ILLEGAL guns!

  23. I read this amazing article in the Washington Post that puts this whole issue in perspective. If roads were constantly collapsing and killing drivers, we would look into stopping that. If terrorists were bombing port after port, we would try to stop it. If the plague hit, health officials would try to protect us. This? This fucking thing with guns? For some reason it’s untouchable and it’s untouchable for three reasons. The N. The R. The A.

    • Yup. Bingo. There are folks in line to buy guns right now because they are afraid that this “event” will inspire tougher gun laws. Folks with guns need to look in the fucking mirror and say, “why do I need this?”

    • Michelle Gillies

      This really is quite profound. Why can “they” not see that.

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