One More Time!

You know, this isn’t rocket science.

GUNS

+

HATEFUL RHETORIC

=

THE DEATH OF

INNOCENT PEOPLE

There is only one common sense solution to end the carnage.  Gun Control.  Sensible gun laws.

And it also is damn time some of these irresponsible politicians, and yeah, I’m talking to you Palin, and you Bachmann, and you Steven King, and a whole host of other primarily in the GOP) stop preaching hate and pretending you stand for freedom and the American way.  You don’t.  You are evil.  Go to hell where you belong.

This rant was inspired by today’s shooting in Wisconsin.

90 Comments

Filed under Campaigning, Criminal Activity, Elections, Gun control, History, Hypocrisy, Law, Politics, Stupidity

90 responses to “One More Time!

  1. John Erickson

    I saw an interesting idea on a friend’s blog, from one of his commenters. Sell ONLY rifles. Big, heavy, semi-automatic. All you need for home defence or hunting, limited magazines (I recommend 10 shots, since two of my 3 WW2 rifles hold 10 shots). No pistols, no sub-machine guns, no assault rifles, nothing else. Make EVERYTHING else, including over-size magazines, totally illegal, and register the rifles at a national level – to allow police to exclude known law-abiding citizens. Mandatory waiting periods is the only thing I’d add to that. This way, you can keep hunters happy, home-defence proponents happy, and keep idiots form smuggling pistols or short SMGs into theatres, temples, etc.
    Nice idea, but like so much related to firearms control, unlikely to see the light of day.

  2. wow – you are apparently really pissed now, they have pushed you to the brink!
    I completely agree with you. What set you off this time? The killing in the Sikh mosque? Right on the heels of the Colorado shooting?
    There is no sane logic to the citizens of this country – or any other – to have free and easy access to assault weapons… how do they fall under the auspices of the right to bear arms? Does a deer hunter need to be able to use an automatic weapon to spray a herd? I don’t think so.
    Good for you!

    • Yes, I am pissed off. Very. And these things are happening so often that they are becoming commonplace. Things that we just have to get used to like toenail fungus and tooth decay.

      Deer hunters don’t need automatic weapons, as you rightly pointed out. And folks with guns in their homes for “protection” have a good chance that that weapon will be used for accidental or intentional death.

      This just makes me so angry. Stupidity does that to me. Thanks for listening to me vent, and for commenting!

      • again, couldn’t agree more. Stupidity is my nemesis and it is around every corner.
        I completely empathize with you, my frustration level has hit maximum velocity. So what do we do?

        • I wish I knew. First of all, though, we need to dismantle the altar of the 2nd Amendment. And to do that we need to stop electing folks who think it is a good thing to cry freedom while they are knee-deep in blood.

          Perhaps getting back in touch with our humanity might help a bit too.

  3. Come on, Elyse, don’t hold back – tell us how you really feel.

    • OK. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

      • Feel better? Probably not. You probably won’t feel better until idiots stop shooting people for no reason. I’m with you.

        • Thanks, Lisa. The first burst of anger is over. Now I am just sad. What sort of society have we become. The shooter was a white supremacist. I know you are as surprised by that as I am.

          There are too many people in positions of power who are preaching hate. We need to take away their platforms, take the microphones back and shut them up via the ridicule they deserve.

          Fantasy.

  4. Because you are fired up, here’s some gasoline. I talked to a friend of mine last weekend and he said instead of more laws, we need better enforcement of what we have.

    • Gun laws vary from state to state. New York, with its tough gun laws is full of guns purchased legally in Virginia under our very lax laws. We need federal ones laws. We need federal laws that prohibit assault weapons (I don’t know that assault weapons were used in today’s shootings) and registration. You have to register your car, why not your gun?

      And then yes, enforcement would be good. But of course the folks who want us all to be armed are the same ones that are trying to cut the police force ….

      OK. I’ll stop now. Until the next comment.

    • John Erickson

      I hate to go against you, Frank, but I definitely agree with Elyse on this. The Chicago streets are running with blood, at more than 1.5 people dead PER DAY, and the guns mostly come from lax-lawed Indiana and Wisconsin. The good, tough laws (like Chicago’s) need to be nationalised.
      (Ignore this comment, Elyse, or you’ll start to doubt my insanity. I’m safe with Frank, he’s already confident I’m nuts. :D )

      • John … you aren’t going against me because I was simply quoting a friend who seemingly is a responsible gun owner.

        • John Erickson

          There’s more of us out here than you might want to think about! Besides, I take being responsible to insane lengths – most of my ammo is blanks! :D

          • But given the high court’s ruling in Heller, I wonder how possible federal laws are.

            • John Erickson

              Well, time to sound stupid. “Heller”?

              • DC vs Heller …. With Heller, the court went where no court has gone before.
                http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf

              • John Erickson

                Unless I misunderstand the syllabus, all this says is the 2nd Amendment overrides DC law, which could be read as the 2nd over-riding state (or lower) law. Is there something else in the decision that puts the 2nd above FEDERAL law?

              • Glad you guys had such a fun time while I was out doing stuff. It all just makes me think that there is much work to be done.

              • Is there something else in the decision that puts the 2nd above FEDERAL law?

                I would suspect so. That’s the point of the constitution; to limit what they government may do. In this case, the 2nd Amendment limits the ability of the government to restrict gun ownership.

              • Somehow the assault weapons ban that expired managed to regulate guns without being unconstitutional. That would be a good place to start.

                I am, of course, not opposed to amending the 2nd Amendment (Amendment 2A?). The Constitution was drafted so that the parts of it that no longer apply to our society can be modified, and it contains the mechanism to do so itself.

                Of course that won’t happen, I know. So I will be happy to make assault weapons (and ammunition) less easy to get.

  5. AHMEN.
    I am so pissed off, so frustrated and scared to death that the next big shoot out will involve me and mine.
    Great post!

  6. Amen Elyse! It’s a free for all out there anymore, it needs to be addressed and it needs to change. It’s not rocket science!

    • The worst thing to my mind (well, except for the killing, obviously) is that the reaction on the other side is always to buy more guns. What lunacy!

  7. I just read about this shooting on Huff Post and I am horrified. Unfortunately, until we can get enough of a public outcry that outweighs the force of the NRA coffers and tenacious lobby influence, this will keep on happening.

  8. I didn’t even realize this happened until I read your post. Jesus christ.

  9. Sorry I haven’t been by for a while, Elyse…but your headline caught my eye and I had to visit. Yes, it is sad, tragic, frustrating, maddening. I wish I knew the answer…I agree with some of the above comments that gun control laws should be strict, strictly enforced and the same from state to state. For me, helping kids grow into adults who respect themselves and others is one path I can help with…if you get a chance, please come by my blog…I’m donating 12 copies of my book to schools across the US…anyone can nominate their favorite preschool, kindergarten, 1st grade, homeschool family or other child-care facility that would benefit from a great resource that builds true self-esteem with picture book stories and activities: http://www.viviankirkfield.wordpress.com
    Thanks if you are able to pass the word along. :)

    • Thanks for stopping by, Vivian. We all come and go amongst the blogs we read — like old friends it’s easy to take up where you left off!

      And I’ll be glad to pass on the word about the books!

  10. My prayers for the victims of the shooting. :(

  11. I sat back yesterday, I watched and I wept. Yes, I wept. In fact I am still weeping, I can’t stop my tears from falling. Every single time I read anything about this I start crying again.

    When will it be enough? When will there be enough innocent lives piled at the door for sane people to say ‘no more’.

    This by the way is the opening of what I will be posting today.

    • It is so horrible. I just read that the gunman has ties, surprise, surprise, surprise, to white supremacists. What a shock.

      I fear that the more of these that occur the more immune we will become — well some of us — and the true horror will be papered over. And of course the crazies with the guns think this just means we need more guns. Yeah right.

      So sad.

      • No one here has mentioned that they were Sikhs, not Muslims. A very peaceful people who do not condone violence in any form.

        • Sigh.
          I did read that on the blogs. That was my initial suspicion but I hadn’t seen a report saying that that was the case. So this man was not only crazy, he was ignorant and yet he killed.

          (I am not, of course, advocating killing of Muslims either, but if you hate a group, perhaps step number one is to figure out who the hell they are before acting.)

          A colleague of mine at work is a Sikh. I’ve had lots of discussions with him over the years about what the Sikhs are. He is a lovely man. He and his wife and their 5-1/2 month old baby were in their temple worshiping when they heard the news. They didn’t know if there would be other attacks coordinated with the one in Wisconsin. As you said, the Sikhs are a gentle people.

          There is a candlelight vigil planned for Wednesday (8/8) in front of the White House (in Lafayette Park). I imagine there will be others across the country.

  12. I respect your passion about this subject and i agree with you bu nothing is going to happen until many more people decide to join your voice. Count me in!

    • Glad you’re on my side, June. It just defies logic and all the things we are supposed to stand for as a people. Hate.

      It is so sad. (I keep saying that, I know.)

  13. There is only one common sense solution to end the carnage. Gun Control. Sensible gun laws.

    First, I don’t think that any of the gun laws in the most strict gun control state will stop things like this. There are crazy folks who will do crazy things no matter what.

    With that said, as a right of center kinda guy I too am in favor of sensible gun control laws. I don’t think that we need citizens armed with assault rifles. The rub is going to be “reasonable.”

    As we create these regulations or laws, we have to look at what we’re trying to accomplish. If the goal is to regulate until we no longer have Wisonsins or Colorados, I don’t think we’ll ever be successful. But if the goal is to reduce the number of such events while mainlining the very reasonable desire to keep the 2nd Amendment in play, we have a good chance of attainment.

    Remember, a very large number of people perish each day due to automobile accidents. Yet we don’t discuss outlawing cars. The balance is what we strive for.

    • Hi Pino, welcome. Thanks for commenting. You are very thoughtful and I do appreciate both sides being presented.

      I agree that we will never be able to stop crazy people from killing others. But these days there are two problems: (1) weapons that can kill hundreds of people easily and (2) a culture that allows hatred, that says it’s OK to hate, to discriminate, to kill folks because they are different.

      That said, we do need to start talking about how to help, how to stop the carnage. Nobody wants it. Nobody sane, anyway.

      Which leads me to your point about cars. Cars can certainly be a weapon, car accidents kill many more people each year than do crazy people with guns. But cars are registered, cars have license plates to identify them. We regulate the hell out of cars — from MPG to seat belts and airbags to make them safer.

      But we have gone in the opposite direction on guns.

      • Hi Pino, welcome.

        Hi.

        a culture that allows hatred, that says it’s OK to hate, to discriminate, to kill folks because they are different.

        Yup. That’s the key. Until we get there, nothing else we do matters.

        But we have gone in the opposite direction on guns.

        I agree. Reasonable regulation is required.

  14. I don’t understand the myopic need to stand behind an amendment written centuries ago when the country was different and those formulating the law couldn’t have possibly foreseen today’s world and it’s diversity and ability to produce killing machines (both in terms of weaponry and disturbed individuals). It makes no sense, but no one wants to talk about changing this supposed “living document.”

    • I don’t understand the myopic need to stand behind an amendment written centuries ago when the country was different and those formulating the law couldn’t have possibly foreseen today’s world and it’s diversity and ability to produce killing machines (both in terms of weaponry and disturbed individuals).

      I think the idea is to prevent a tyrannical government from controlling all weapons. However, many people argue that I’m wrong in this by claiming that the 2nd Amendment allows people to control local militia, not to literally “arm themselves.”

      • My issue is with assault weapons that can spray deadly bullets into masses of people in seconds. I can’t see how those weapons can be used for protecting yourself in a civil way. Those weapons are military grade. Why else would someone have them if not to mass murder?

        I know the Wisconsin gun man had a hand gun, so he’s not the example I’m talking about.

        I just think if people had to get up close and person to kill each other, there would be less killing. But that’s just me. I’m Buddhist and shun violence of any kind. :|

        • My issue is with assault weapons that can spray deadly bullets into masses of people in seconds.

          I agree. I think a reasonable start would be to ban assault rifles.

          • You guys didn’t seem to need me!

            You came to a reasonable and wise starting point. And you know it makes me feel hopeful that maybe something wise will come before too long.

            OK, so I’m dreaming. But I am an optimist.

        • Lorna, I’m sorry I didn’t answer your comment directly. You and Pino had exactly the kind of discussion we need to have in this country. One where a middle ground is reached. Sadly, the middle ground is a huge gaping hole.

          Thanks for your thoughts and your comments. I was working and couldn’t respond until much later and then, well, you guys figured it out!

  15. Unfortunately, as politicians continue to ‘divide and conquer’ they forget that dividing the country weakens us all.

  16. Absolutely, PW. It is mindboggling.

  17. Nice post, Elyse!
    Another wake up call… When will people ever learn?
    Reminds me of Bob Dylan’s classic line: “The answer my friend, is blowing in the wind. The answer is blowing in the wind. BTW, I am fifty-four-and-a-half years old now; the lyrics of that song still ring true and remain to be addressed.

    • Thanks, Chito. Isn’t it amazing how far ahead of society Dylan was? Or is it just that we haven’t progressed. Yeah, I think it’s the second. These days I think “A Hard Rain’s A Gonna Fall” quite frequently too.

      Congrats on being 54.5! It’s a great place to stop aging.

  18. The Republican woman running for US Senate in my home state has recently ran a Facebook ad that we need to vote for her so she can prevent the “gun grab” that Obama would attempt if he were elected to another term. Here’s the thing. The picture in her ad was of a revolver that was printed to resemble the US flag. Seriously? This is the symbol we want representing American freedom? A hand gun? You’ve got to f*cking be kidding me.

    • Oh, Angie, after I saw this comment I looked her up. I haven’t paid attention to your race. It looks like she is going to win. That another Sarah Palin protege will be in the Senate. God help us all.

      • She beat my old boss in the primary. He was considered a shoo-in — while he was a staunch conservative, he was by no means crazy like this woman.

        Sadly, retired US Senator Bob Kerrey, who was an amazing US Senator with gobs of respect across the aisles, probably doesn’t stand a chance against her. Blech.

        • The last polls I looked at a while ago showed Kerrey trailing by a whole lot. Sucks.

          I also saw Sarah Palin’s “letter” to Deb. Sarah is now referring to herself in the third person. That’s never a good sign.

          Oh, how I wish she’d get caught in bed with a woman.

          • Her only weakness is a gob of federal subsidies she’s accepted as a rancher. She seems like “one of them” but really she’s a millionaire born and bred in the big city. She married a rancher and moved to a small town so she can disguise herself as a country girl in the way of Sarah Palin. Yes, indeed watch out for this one next year.

            • Oh Lord.

              I remember driving through a neighborhood here in NOVA in 2008. A year or two earlier that neighborhood had been in National Geographic as the one with the highest priced housing in the nation. In the WHOLE F’ING COUNTRY. And there was a hand-painted sign stuck on the corner that read: Sarah! She’s One Of Us! Apparently they had shopped together.

              These people make me vomit.

              • I still love Jon Stewart’s bit about how we shouldn’t want someone who’s “just like us” to lead the country. We’re freakin’ idiots! Why do we want someone like us? We just got swept away by the Macarena! (This was in 1996 when everyone, even Oprah on her show, was performing the Macarena dance.)

              • I was late to discover Jon Stewart because we were in Europe. But my favorite Stewart line was when he responded to Tucker Carlson (I think) that no, he didn’t want to have a beer with George W Bush because he tried not to drink with alcoholics.

              • Ha! Good one. Though sad.

              • I think without Stewart and Colbert my head would explode. Oh, yeah, it did.

              • John Erickson

                Angie, I won’t burden you with the story, but here’s a lighter image in this rather heavy post. You say we were all doing the Macarena? Yes we were – including the troop of re-enactors I was with, dressed in WW2 German uniform. Yep – Blitzkrieg, Macarena-style. Enjoy the image! :D

              • I think there was an episode of Hogan’s Heros when they did that, if I’m not mistaken ;).

              • John Erickson

                Nope, that was us. Never got that rowdy in the British unit – they were too stiff to have fun. Then again, we were tame, compared to the Texas boys that joined us as Germans at a battle. You haven’t LIVED until you’ve seen a troop of German soldiers come marching up and let out with a “Yee-HAW! That was fun, shootin’ up them Russians!”.
                And yes, they were stone-cold sober. I wouldn’t trust ‘em otherwise. :D

              • Oh good lord. Is there anything sacred in this world that the Macarena didn’t taint? That right there is an image I won’t soon forget. I thank you for that, John.

              • I think we need to cue the theme song and it just might be, no, it can’t be! Yes, it’s the LIMBO.

                Somehow these comments fail to reflect the seriousness of the post.

              • John Erickson

                Congratulations, dear lady, you’ve just become the latest victim of the dread ….. BLOG HIJACKER! :D
                It’s my mission in life to keep seriousness from making people suicidal. Okay, levity break over, we now return you to your serious discussion, already in progress. ;)

              • Thanks, John. You caught me just at the edge.

          • Sad that Nebraska used to have greats like Chuck Hagel and Bob Kerrey and even Doug Bereuter representing us in Congress — all with strong independent streaks and oodles of stripes and respect earned in Washington. Now we have a bunch of wet noodle rubber stamps.

            • I’ve had a post running through my head about the titans that I once followed. I think I need to get busy on it. But I am sick of being on the soapbox, actually.

  19. More gun control won’t work. the laws in place now are not enforced. gun control won’t curb violence anymore than prohibition stopped drinking or the current drug laws stop people from performing ritual pharmacological suicide. McDonald’d doesn’t make us obese – it’s the convenience we choose that makes it easier for us to get that way. Guns don’t kill people – but the convenience of them sure makes it easier to kill people.
    As for the hateful rhetoric masking as patriotism and religion – i’m with you there. and it’s everywhere – the white house, congress, the pulpit, the radio, the TV, newspapers, magazines, the internet, billboards, twitters, graffiti and tattoos. for every public Michelle Bachman, there are thousands standing behind her in agreement. And the media certainly doesn’t want that trend to stop…

    • I read a lot of history and find that whenever there are crazy people in positions of power, and zealots standing behind them, pumping them up, well, good things do not happen.

      But we’ve disagreed about the impact of gun control before, Cooper. Federal gun control laws would help. Help. Not end. But you can’t have 50 different laws and expect folks to not go across borders. Hey, why don’t we have a FEDERAL government? You know, one with LAWS that impact all 50 STATES! Wouldn’t that be somethin’? Oy.

      If an assault weapons ban, which is where I think we need to start, stops one massacre of innocent folks minding their own business, well then, I think it is worth it.

      • See…now you’re trying to apply common sense…
        ==”common sense” – “federal government”==
        i’m sorry – the two don’t match up. I do agree that hunters have no need for assault weapons or armor piercing bullets – unless the deer have a secret weapons cache in the nation’s hills – in which case it becomes a more equal battle.

        • I can’t help it Cooper. I’m am optimist.

          And you gotta watch those deer. Around here they are everywhere. And once they get those assault weapons, nobody’s garden will be safe.

          • John Erickson

            (Sigh.) Elyse, Elyse, Elyse. I keep tellin’ ya – the 2nd amendment is about the right to bear arms, not to arm bears. You’re worse than my wife on that one! ;)

            • Old joke John. I expected better

              • John Erickson

                What you fail to realise is the truth in that old joke. One of my wife’s bears came with chain mail armour, another with a leather harness and whip. (Okay, that’s not TECHNICALLY armed, but what the hey.) We also got a bear from the USAF Museum in Dayton, dressed all in NATO camo. And last but not least, is the bear that is bigger than my wife. Seriously, he is HUGE. He’s a weapon all in himself – if he fell on you, you’d be toast!
                And that’s just the bears. We’ve got at least three stuffed dogs over 5′ long, a couple moose in hunter’s gear, and a pair of dragons for overhead coverage. (Yes – our house IS a menagerie, and the real animals aren’t the only threats around here. ;) )

              • Now you are getting weird and way off message, John.

              • John Erickson

                Hey, YOU want to give deer assult rifles. I limit my bears to swords! (Well, and a whip.) And after all, at least MY stuffies aren’t mailing assault rifles through the mail, disguised as big-screen TVs, which is more than UPS can say! ;)
                Besides, I thought you LIKED it when I got weird…. :D

  20. Well said. I felt just the same, when I saw the news while I was having my dinner that day. Yesterday I saw the interview of the son, whose father lost his life that day. It was really painful to hear how his father lost his life while saving someone else.

  21. Steven King is mixed up in this? I’ve never understood the loose laws for advocating guns. We have it all wrong.

    • Not the author. This King is a right wing crazy congressman. I should have made that more clear! Sorry. I was ranting and fuming. Thinking doesn’t work so well when I’m doing that.

  22. “As for the hateful rhetoric masking as patriotism and religion – i’m with you there. and it’s everywhere – the white house, congress”

    Well written!

    ghost.

  23. Perhaps this comment belongs on the blog where you found those words.

  24. Pingback: The Voice of the Problem | FiftyFourandAHalf

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